Christians and including Jehovah's Witnesses, what does Acts 5:1-4 tell you?
1 But there was a certain man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. 2 He brought part of the money to the apostles, claiming it was the full amount. With his wife’s consent, he kept the rest.
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!”
(NLT)
Update:Abernathy the Dull - you just don't get it do you. This is not me, it's not a trinity thing or proof. This is Peter speaking, he thinks that the Holy Spirit is God. For you to disgard it like yesterdays news is disregarding a spoken truth of the men of those times instead you are happy to believe in some mens ideals and concepts of today, mainly those whom sit in Brooklyn New York, Your true god, Whom you faithfuly follow.
Update 3:Grey Tower- Thank you so much for bring to this question many truths. I really want to thank you for bringing forth Romans 8:26-27 which tell us that the Holy Spirit "prays" for us. I want to ask any Jehovah's Witness, how can an active force pray for us? How can he act on our accord and pray for us if he is not a person?
Update 5:Hannah J Paul
You make a very good argument with the personification of land. A metaphorical personification use of inanimate objects. I would have to concede to your argument if not for the use within the entire Bible. Land is not personified throughout the entire Bible but the Holy Spirit is. There are many example of personification in the Bible and I am sure you could list many. But this verse is only one of many, many verses that after careful consideration and the consideration of all those other verses, therefore, leads us to the inescapable conclusion that there is an absolute basis in Acts 5:3, 4 upon which to form the teaching that the Holy Spirit is God. The inanimate objects that you speak of and the others in the Bible do not conform to all the emotions, the abilities, such as to pray for us, interceded for us, teach and comfort…. There are so many more. If only it was now and then it were personified, but all the time. Indisputable!
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Answers & Comments
Verified answer
Acts 5:1-4 tells me that the Holy Spirit is God with us now, just as Jesus was God with us then. It also reminds me that there is no worse sin than to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and this incident informs me that to lie to the Holy Spirit is the same thing as lying to God.
It is noteworthy that Peter said Satan had filled Ananias' heart so that he lied to the Holy Spirit. Clearly, Ananias hadn't worked it out that to lie to the Holy Spirit was the same thing as lying to God, and so Peter had to remind him. Peter, in verse 9, tells Sapphira that she had agreed to test the Spirit of the Lord. It was important that the early Christians understood they could not deceive the Spirit and that God will not tolerate hypocrisy and deceit. It is noteworthy that Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to acknowledge who the Holy Spirit really is - God with us now. The apostle Peter is telling us that the Holy Spirit is God.
Here are some more scriptures from the Bible on the person of the Holy Spirit:
John 15:26 - "When the Counsellor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."
1 Corinthians 6:19 - "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? Therefore honour God with your body."
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 - "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
Romans 8:9-11 - "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you." See also Acts 2:24, 32 and John 2:18-22.
All 3 persons of the Godhead are involved in creation and redemption. The Father sends the Son and the Son seeks to do the will of the Father, and both the Father and the Son give the Spirit to us. The Father wasn’t crucified – the Son was. There is a distinction between the persons of the triune God, but never a division, for the Father is in the Son, as the Son is in the Spirit. The Son is not part of God, the Son IS God. The Spirit is not part of God, the Spirit IS God.
There are many names given to the Holy Spirit: The Spirit of God, the Spirit of his Son, the Spirit of Christ, the spirit of truth, the spirit of holiness, the Holy One, eternal Spirit, the Spirit of life and the Comforter. How can the Holy Spirit simply be Jehovah's energy when Jesus said he would send another comforter to his apostles after Jesus ascended into heaven? Jesus was the original comforter, but Jesus was not Jehovah! See John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7.
The Holy Spirit can be:
Blasphemed (Mark 3:29-30)
Grieved (Isaiah 63:10; Eph. 4:30)
Lied to (Acts 5:3)
Intercede or pray on the behalf of the believer (Rom. 8:26)
Issue commands (Acts 13:4; Acts 16:6)
Testify (Nehemiah 9:30; John 15:26; Hebrews 10:15)
Teach (John 14:26)
Has a will (1 Corinthians 12:9-11)
Is intelligent, investigates and searches (1 Corinthians 2:10-11; Rom. 8:27)
The problem was not the property they held back. The problem was their deception and lying about it. If they had just said I give this much and I'm keeping the rest they would have lived.
Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren
http://www.armageddonangelsufos.com/
Acts tells me how wrong and dangerous it is to lie.
However, as respects offering this account as support for the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is God, if we were to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion, we would have to also say that Samuel the prophet is God. Why? Look at 1 Samuel 12:1:
"Samuel said to all Israel, ‘I have listened to everything you said to me and have set a king over you.’" At verse 13, the account continues with Samuel saying:
"Now here is the king you have chosen, the one you asked for, see, the LORD has set a king over you. (New International Version)
So one verse says Samuel set a king over Israel; the other verse says "the LORD" set a king over Israel. Are we to believe that Samuel is the Lord? Of course not. What does it mean, then? That Samuel’s act of setting a king over Israel was equivalent to God doing the same thing.
Moreover, we would also have to say that Moses is God. Why? Consider Numbers 14:2:
"And all the people of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron." (Revised Standard Version) Now look at verses 26 and 27:
"And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, ‘How long shall this wicked congregation MURMUR AGAINST ME? I have heard the murmurings of the people of Israel, which they murmur against me.’" (Revised Standard Version)
Well, is Moses God? Is Aaron God? No, but the murmuring against them both is the same as murmuring against God.
Go back to your citation of Acts 5:3, 4. Now we can see that lying to the Holy Spirit was the same as lying to God. But as can be seen from the examples above, this does not make the Holy Spirit God. To argue that Acts 5:3, 4 establishes that God and the holy spirit are one and the same being is like saying that Numbers 14:2, 26 and 27 establishes that Moses and Aaron are also God.
"Yes," some may say, "but you cannot lie to a something. You can only lie to a person." Is that really so? In Biblical discourse, we often find personality attributed to abstractions and inanimate things. Notice: Job 31:38-40 which says that "my land cries out against me and all its furrows are wet with tears, if I have devoured its yield without payment or broken the spirit of its tenants, then let briars come up . . . " (NIV). Or Jeremiah 7:28: where we read: ". . . "say to them, ‘This is the nation that has not obeyed the LORD its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished . . . " (NIV). How about Job 34:6: "Should I lie against my right?" (King James Version) Hardly will anyone argue that because the land "cries out", the furrows are "wet with tears", truth and money "perish", these inanimate things must of necessity be persons since only persons could experience these.
A careful consideration of the above, therefore, leads us to the inescapable conclusion that there is absolutely no basis in Acts 5:3, 4 upon which to form the teaching that the Holy Spirit is God.
Hannah J Paul
You can not LIE to a thing which the witnesses refer to the Holy spirit as an IT>> in conversation a IT is a thing, and to them the HOLY Spirit is a force that The Almighty God uses to do his will , when It context of script and if they knew their Hebrew would realize that 1. Peter her is a Jew,, Lived as a Jew , worshiped as a Jew as was Paul. Before Jesus died he said He would send the Comforter to them, to be with them , an active force can not comfort or lead...............them the example of Electricty that they use to describe does not fit here because it neither leads or comforts one in the way in which Jesus meant when he said he would send the Comforter to them. Jesus did not want his fellow disciples or Apostles to be left alone so he sent the comforter to them.
In the scripture above it is clear as a bell that the HOLY Spirit is not a it but a who ,,,, if you lied to electricity would it be insulted with you? or angry? Of course not would electricity on its own will be able to punish you? No , of course Not, But when a person or living being is lied to there is emotional consquences. The bible says one should not grieve the Holy spirit, how do you grieve something that is considered an it and not a who or whom. You can not mourn an it only a whom, a whom in which you would have a relationship with. This being said, another scripture says That no one can come to the father unless the father draws him,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and another scripture says . ..... No one comes to the father except through me (Jesus) and since Jesus who at this particular time was not on earth with his disciples had sent the comforter to them they were to have a relationship with the Holy spirit that He sent to be with them in order to come to the Son to the Father. If you lie to the Holy spirit you have lied to the Father and the Son. Because they are all ONE < EChad! Which in Hebrew Means ONE<>
Shema Israel Adonai ,Elohienu Adonai Echad, Hear of Israel The Lord our God is one,
Baru'shem ka'vod mal too tou la o'lam v'ed, blessed be his glorious Kingdom forever and ever. In Yeshua Ha'messheiach ho'Adonai is Lord....
This generosity on the part of the landowners in the fellowship provided a basis for Satan to get a foothold. These people, though sensitive to the Holy Spirit in a way that we probably are not, were still human. What do you think the poorer people thought of the landowners who were selling their land? Most likely, they were held in high regard. They were probably praised greatly by the members of the fellowship, just as we even today shower praise on members who demonstrate accomplishments. This showering of praise on one another can easily be used of Satan to empower the sin of pride in members of the fellowship. The consequences of this sin are illustrated in the experience of the church and Ananias and Sapphira. Ananias was a landowner who also sold a piece of land in order to bring the proceeds to the fellowship. However, his motivation was different. We can be reminded of the sacrifices brought to God by Cain and Abel. Abel brought his from a true heart, and Cain brought his out of resistant obligation. Cain hated God for the requirement of sacrifice, and in his jealousy of God’s acceptance of his brother’s sacrifice, Cain killed Abel. In a way, Ananias was a lot like Cain. What was Ananias’ purpose in bringing the gift? Not all of the conversation is recorded in the book of Acts, but there is enough here to know clearly that Ananias told the Apostles that his gift included the entire proceeds from the land sale. However, he was lying, giving only a portion of it.
Who was Ananias lying to? (Peter revealed to him that he had lied to the Holy Spirit.) Have you ever been tempted to "stretch" the truth in order to obtain notoriety or respect? This was what Ananias was doing. However, his lie was not just to the apostles. He was committing a form of blasphemy by diminishing the that which belongs to God by keeping for himself, not only the proceeds from the land, but the praise and honor that was due only to God.
Peter is not saying that the Holy Spirit is God any more than Numbers 16:3, 11 proves that Moses and Aaron are God.
Since the Holy Spirit is GOD'S Holy Spirit, anyone lying against the Holy Spirit would also be lying against God.
But the Holy Spirit is not God. It is a possession of God.
I had read this account several times before I knew it was a Trinitarian 'proof text.' Yet, I never had any problems with it. I didn't have to run off to the Watchtower index and look up how to 'explain away' the 'obvious implications that the holy spirit is God.' On the contrary, I knew that those who are lying to the holy spirit are lying to God the Father, since the spirit emanates from him.
This is supposed to be the strongest case for the holy spirit's godship. It is a weak case.
Ever heard the expression: "Biting the hand that feeds you"?
Does it imply that the hand of itself is a fully formed, intelligent, self-willed person?
I ask these questions because Jesus refered to holy spirit as 'God's finger'. (compare Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28)
Even though a person's hand or finger does not constitute a whole person with a separate name, personality, mind etc; biting a person's hand or finger would be regarded as biting the person because the finger is attached to the person and controlled by him/her.
Again:
Have you ever heard someone say of another person who is acting in a grumpy or otherwise unpleasant manner:
"Don't pay him any mind -- it's the [insert name of medicine] talking?"
Does medicine talk? What does the above quotation really mean?
Do you understand what I'm getting at here?
Ananias and Sapphira did not fall prey to a momentary weakness. They schemed and lied in an attempt to deceive the apostles. Worse still, they ‘played false to the holy spirit and to God.’ Jehovah’s response demonstrates in no uncertain terms that he is prepared to protect the congregation from hypocrites. Truly, “it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”! Heb. 10:31.
let's bifurcate the issue:
- sins against Jehovah, the father can be forgiven;
- sins against Jesus, the son, can be forgiven;
- sins against the Holy Spirit, Jehovah's active force or power, WILL NOT be forgiven.
conclusion?
1- do not lie to anyone
2- NEVER lie to or about the power of Jehovah
3- proof positive that Jehovah is not part of a trinity
4- proof positive that Jesus is not part of a trinity.
like the one above: self explanatory
adios from the river
gramps